"Always pointing at the moon" - A Carlo Rivetti Interview

Carlo Rivetti strolls through the Mercato Storico Albinelli, greeting and shaking everyone who approaches him in his unmistakable Modena mackintosh over a Stone Island look. The Modena president is in his natural element as he sips his customary beer between flatbreads with egg noodles and cheese towers before heading to Alberto Braglia for a home Serie B match. Rivetti has been one of the most elusive figures in Italian fashion for years, guardian of the secrets of the Ravarino factory, where Stone Island has been producing the most innovative and futuristic garments in the world for decades and which can still count on a cult following today. Now, as President of Modena, he is ready to tell his story, which is also that of his family, of the Emilian territory in which he was able to create a model of success that is unique in the Italian industrial panorama, of the fashion system that he always wanted to escape but which constantly haunted him, of a sensibility characterised by constant challenges, many of which he won, some of which he lost, but always with his eyes on the future.

What is it like to enter the world of football after a life in another industry and only ever follow it as a spectator?

It's very nice. And above all, it's the culmination of a passion that my whole family is involved in. And so, first of all, it was extremely exciting. Another thing that really impresses me is the visibility that football gives you, it really is unrivalled.

I've often said that as an entrepreneur in Italy, you still have to be positive and have a vision. How can you think positively about Italian football at this moment in history?

Let's put it this way: at the moment, it's absolutely not easy. We want to bring something different to the world of football. We have a large number of Italian players, we work a lot on youth. Last week we called up three boys from the U17 team to the national team. Last year we won the Italian Primavera three championship and were promoted to Primavera two. We brought two boys from the Primavera into the first team, so we're working in that direction. The idea would be to form a team with only Italian players. That's a dream. They all grew up and were born with us.

No doubt this area has given you so much that it has convinced you to continue investing in human capital.

But when I came here 42 years ago, I came from Piedmont. It was interesting because I had the opportunity to get to know a different culture and I felt very connected to the territory I found. I always tell the story that the guys in my company used to switch off the lights when they left the office. That shows the bond with the company and, in this case, with Modena Football Club. The people here are extremely generous.

What are the biggest differences between managing a football club and a fashion brand?

Well, without a doubt the timing, because in the world of football you are challenged every weekend. Let's say that in the world of fashion design, although the hours are extremely short, they are much more extended and you have more time to work. Maybe the results also depend more on your skills. Here, on the other hand, I and we can put the team on the field with the company, but the results come from the boys.

And now that football is also very close to the fashion world in terms of style, did you ever want to do something that would connect the two even more?

No. No, because they are two completely different realities. It's pointless to deny that we had some problems in the past because Stone Island had become the cult brand of English hooligans and we therefore always avoided linking Stone with football in any way. Then of course it's a product that sports people really like, basketball players, footballers, boxers, and so the idea was still to keep the two absolutely separate.

Why do you think athletes like it so much?

I think the product is very cool and that's why they like it. Among other things, we've never made women's clothing before and there are a lot of women who dress in Stone. So I think it's a mythical brand, also because we've never chased fashion trends, we've always gone straight for them, and I think you have to do that in football as well. When I told you earlier that we'd like to take a different path, that's exactly what I don't want to do. We are trying to do something different.

Have you thought about calling up Kanye West to play some games?

When Kanye was looking for me so much, the guys from my press office came in all excited and told me that Kanye West was looking for you and I asked the big question, “What team is he on?” And then when they told me he was Kim Kardashian's husband, I was able to place him. So let's just say my first impression of Kanye West was that he was a footballer.

The relationship with New Balance, on the other hand, has a certain history because you chose a brand that is somehow connected to football.

We worked so much with New Balance as Stone and we got along really well. At some point, my son Silvio said, “You have to talk to the president.” I wanted to advise him against investing in Modena. Then I told him about my project, which he liked so much that he decided to invest in it instead. And now we've been working together for three seasons, and the human relationships are the important ones, because their product is beautiful, the jerseys this year were a resounding success, they're really beautiful, but it's the human relationships that are important. We understand each other very well.

How did you decide to rebrand instead? Because it's very different from the rather minimal work being done today.

Fortunately, I have a nephew who is a communications genius, and the old Modena logo was really outdated, even graphically. And the fans also understood the point of this renovation. Of course, there are always a few bad words at the beginning, because when you change something, people are never happy. Instead, they later recognised the freshness of the design, the fact that it is absolutely contemporary.

The whole graphic part, on the other hand, comes from this sports newspaper that was published in Modena in the 1950s, which we found again, and it had an absolutely unique font that we adopted. And after the initial difficulties, I have to say that the fans really appreciate it.

They see how important the family has been throughout the journey, even as you say, which is that every family figure has a role to play.

So in that way we really save money.

That's the secret.

I always say, and this is the truth, if I didn't have my family, I would probably be in a chiringuito in Mexico today. Because at the end of the day, you work because you have a family to carry on what you've built. As I've already told you, Modena has brought the whole family together, because there are those who support Milan, those who support Inter, Juventus and Roma, and the only team that used to unite us was the Italian national team, but today it's Modena that brings us together.

That's why everyone is looking forward to working in Modena. And then I want to tell you that working in sport, in football, behind the scenes, building the team is really fascinating.

And now that football shirts have become something that goes beyond the pitch, they are a tool for experimentation and creativity in terms of design and materials - have you ever thought of working on a new model in Ravarino?

Then do the history check that nobody knows about. I used to be president of the ice hockey team that I led to the C Series in Europe. And what did you do? The first thing I did was say, “Gee, I'll design the jerseys,” and we made them in Ravarino. We play the game and the players tell me that these kits are shit. They really were completely inadequate. After I learnt my lesson, I was never tempted again. In Milan we say “Ofelè fa el so mestée",” everyone has to do the job they can and not invent a profession, and I'm very respectful.

You said in an interview that Cantona was the first footballer to show the Stone logo on television.

Do you know how much that cost me? Zero. Because he played in Manchester and the biggest Stone Island customer in the world is in Manchester and his name is Flannels. And what did he do? He went there, bought it and appeared on TV three times with the Stone Island logo. Au revoir. We've become number one, but that's completely natural and spontaneous.

Compared to Cantona, do you see anyone today who has this communicative power or who you would like to work with to develop a campaign or a product?

No, that never happened. But when someone gets him in front of the camera, it's great. For example, the twenty-minute interview with the Ballon d'Or on TV with Pep Guardiola, propped up with the plaque in sight - do you know how much that cost me? Zero! But why? Why don't we use testimonials? That's not necessary. We have witnesses, of course, and then it's much more serious. At some point he told me to call Guardiola, but I'm not thinking about that.

I'll also tell you that I wanted to meet drakes, for example, before we made the costumes for the tour. My daughter Camilla went there when we took his measurements and I brought him the clothes and said: “These were made just for you. We'll never tell,” but that wasn't necessary. In the meantime, you could see them and tell them and we will never produce them again. But precisely because it wasn't a commercial operation. And I have to say, when I walked into his dressing room, he was excited, I was excited, and then he offered me his whiskey and that was a good experience too.

What brings you to these experiences?

I like what he does, the kind of music he produces. The fact that he was given a Stone shirt by his mum when he was 12 and it's always stayed with him, which means he really loves that product. It's not a passing fad, it's ingrained in his being.

And what do you think makes this product so special thirty years later? It stays in the heart of a boy who may have spent not just one allowance, but ten allowances to buy it.

In the early 1980s, boys who loved Stone would often pay tied up. And I think the integrity of the product is rewarding. And when you use a jacket, you have the geography of your body. You know your mobile phone is here and your wallet is there.

When you change jackets, you have to re-study the geography of your body. And do you know the Linus blanket? The average lifespan of a Stone jacket is twenty years, like that of a Volvo, and so you get used to it. Also, and I keep say this, they tell me it's nice but expensive, and I say to them “when did you buy it?”, “ten years ago”, “so you've written it off”, so in the end it's not that expensive compared to other products that you use for maybe two seasons and then no more.

And because it's not a product that's fashion orientated, it's functionality and design orientated, it doesn't go out of fashion because it wasn't in fashion when I bought it. It was cool that a different concept, cool we say now.

If fashion invented trends to get people to buy more and more, you did the opposite. How do you manage to keep selling?

I didn't want to open our corner in Rinascente, but then they convinced me and said: “Yes, but we'll put it at the back.” No, if we do it, we'll put it where the escalators come, and that's when I realised that I just had to make it more visible and talk to people more without changing the language. I was convinced and I still am: if you have a strong concept, you will always find someone around the world who is willing to listen to you - the world is big.

How do you manage to stay consistent when you have so much success and everyone wants to work with you? How hard is it to keep say no?

Very easy, very easy. But you're right. In my opinion, the hardest thing in these forty years, or at least in the last fifteen years, is not saying no, but the ability to keep the bar straight. I won't hide from you that about ten years ago I was told that we had to take the budget away because people didn't want these things anymore, or that it was fashionable to make jumpers with diamonds, we have to make jumpers with diamonds. And I always said that there are already jumpers with diamonds, so the market doesn't need that, let's do something else.

If I hear someone say that they're inspired by the street, they're already too late. Inspiration can't come from the street, inspiration for me always comes from studying materials, from treating fabrics, from these things that are our real competitive advantage along with other things.

Stone Island is a brand that has always been able to look inwards, to itself, to change the outside.

The wise man looks at the moon, the fool looks at the finger, and our moon is the future. What excites me the most is the fact that you don't know how many attempts, researches etc. have failed in so many years, and today, with the new technologies, I have a whole series of big failures behind me that I can take with me and try to carry on. Yes, you're right: it's almost a self-runner that has its origins in the past but looks to the future.

Oscar Wilde said that experience is the name we give to our mistakes. Is there something you did thirty or forty years ago that you could do now, and something you did thirty years ago that you could no longer do?

You know, I came from an absolutely traditional business, making formal wear. And then I had a vision when I was watching my children dress at school and I realised early on that the world was going to change, that the new generation was going to dress differently.

And that was the decision that changed my life: I wanted to get out of 'formal wear" and do something that barely had a name at the time, if you will. And then the whole world went there.

The ultimate goal now is to get Modena into the Champions League.

Yes, we still have a lot of work to do. But is it true that the goal is to get into the Champions League when you become president of a football club? Yes. Winning the Champions League is the goal. But joking aside, I've never set myself low goals in my life - in my opinion, you always have to have ambitious goals and of course try to achieve them.